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	<title>Comments on: The Left Vs Free Speech</title>
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		<title>By: Pacific Empire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Common Sense at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-91675</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Empire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Common Sense at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-91675</guid>
		<description>[...] at The Standard, and the hypocrisy of the Left with regard to anonymity and privacy has not gone unnoticed in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at The Standard, and the hypocrisy of the Left with regard to anonymity and privacy has not gone unnoticed in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37784</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37784</guid>
		<description>To add to Luke&#039;s comments, I don&#039;t think any restrictions on freedom of speech are justified. Maybe that makes me strange or loopy and not part of the political mainstream, but I believe that I should be able to shout my political opinions from the rooftops, buy $3000 billboards, advertise them in newspapers and all without fear of prosecution. Moreover I should be able to do all that anonymously if I want to. Free speech should be unconditional, not predicated on disclosing your name and address, submitting to an audit, getting a permit or anything else. At the moment the only ways you can express your political opinions anonymously and legally are by voting and blogging.  And yes, the EFA covers all political expression, because the definition of election advertising has not been effectively narrowed from the original version, despite the removal of the &quot;issue advertising&quot; clause. The EFA also covers negative campaigning, so it would cover Idiot if not for the blog clause.

This doesn&#039;t mean I want shouting &quot;Fire!&quot; in a crowded theater, making a credible death threat, deliberately lying to destroy a reputation, or making false claims about a product to be legal. You don&#039;t have free speech on someone else&#039;s property or on someone else&#039;s website, and the other examples cover force or fraud, i.e. deliberate violations of rights to which the speech component is incidental.

BTW, when trying to persuade a libertarian the old &quot;he knowingly broke the law and deserves to suffer the consequences&quot; argument is just doomed to failure...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To add to Luke&#8217;s comments, I don&#8217;t think any restrictions on freedom of speech are justified. Maybe that makes me strange or loopy and not part of the political mainstream, but I believe that I should be able to shout my political opinions from the rooftops, buy $3000 billboards, advertise them in newspapers and all without fear of prosecution. Moreover I should be able to do all that anonymously if I want to. Free speech should be unconditional, not predicated on disclosing your name and address, submitting to an audit, getting a permit or anything else. At the moment the only ways you can express your political opinions anonymously and legally are by voting and blogging.  And yes, the EFA covers all political expression, because the definition of election advertising has not been effectively narrowed from the original version, despite the removal of the &#8220;issue advertising&#8221; clause. The EFA also covers negative campaigning, so it would cover Idiot if not for the blog clause.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t mean I want shouting &#8220;Fire!&#8221; in a crowded theater, making a credible death threat, deliberately lying to destroy a reputation, or making false claims about a product to be legal. You don&#8217;t have free speech on someone else&#8217;s property or on someone else&#8217;s website, and the other examples cover force or fraud, i.e. deliberate violations of rights to which the speech component is incidental.</p>
<p>BTW, when trying to persuade a libertarian the old &#8220;he knowingly broke the law and deserves to suffer the consequences&#8221; argument is just doomed to failure&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37615</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37615</guid>
		<description>Innocent bystander, you are right in that this is a rule which will affect only a few people in New Zealand this year, and then only when they are in a situation like Andy&#039;s (don&#039;t want to reveal their home address).

What is important is the cumulative effect of this law and the many others like it.  Freedom does not go down screaming in a ball of fire, it dies because of a thousand tiny law changes which all take away a little bit of our freedom.

We are never going to be able to point to one law and say, this is where it happened; this is where NZ crossed the line and became a fascist communist state.

What we can do it hold up each little law as it becomes clear that it chips away at freedom of speech and make sure that everyone knows about it (even if they deny the cumulative effects of such laws).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Innocent bystander, you are right in that this is a rule which will affect only a few people in New Zealand this year, and then only when they are in a situation like Andy&#8217;s (don&#8217;t want to reveal their home address).</p>
<p>What is important is the cumulative effect of this law and the many others like it.  Freedom does not go down screaming in a ball of fire, it dies because of a thousand tiny law changes which all take away a little bit of our freedom.</p>
<p>We are never going to be able to point to one law and say, this is where it happened; this is where NZ crossed the line and became a fascist communist state.</p>
<p>What we can do it hold up each little law as it becomes clear that it chips away at freedom of speech and make sure that everyone knows about it (even if they deny the cumulative effects of such laws).</p>
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		<title>By: Innocent bystander</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37588</link>
		<dc:creator>Innocent bystander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 11:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37588</guid>
		<description>Well its not really that clever...you are perfectly entitled to express your political opinions online and anywhere else under the new law and to suggest otherwise is simply partisan grandstanding. If you want to engage in electioneering and solicit votes then that is different and you have to front up plain and simple. I don&#039;t recall idiot campaigning for any party. 

Quite aside from that, Andrew Moore openly flouted the law, baited the authorities and now he and much of the politial right are loudly playing the victim ...excuse me for not being sympathetic.

We probably have hundreds of restrictions on free speech in our society - basically because that is the will of the political mainstream (and I don&#039;t mean that in the Don Brash sense). Most voters (and even most national voters) simply do not believe in unrestricted free speech and the would find the idea (along with the rest of the ideas of the strange libertarian cult as loopy as I do). This doesn&#039;t make us Zimbabwe or North Korea. 

There is a lot not to like about the current government but you really need to get a sense of perspective here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well its not really that clever&#8230;you are perfectly entitled to express your political opinions online and anywhere else under the new law and to suggest otherwise is simply partisan grandstanding. If you want to engage in electioneering and solicit votes then that is different and you have to front up plain and simple. I don&#8217;t recall idiot campaigning for any party. </p>
<p>Quite aside from that, Andrew Moore openly flouted the law, baited the authorities and now he and much of the politial right are loudly playing the victim &#8230;excuse me for not being sympathetic.</p>
<p>We probably have hundreds of restrictions on free speech in our society &#8211; basically because that is the will of the political mainstream (and I don&#8217;t mean that in the Don Brash sense). Most voters (and even most national voters) simply do not believe in unrestricted free speech and the would find the idea (along with the rest of the ideas of the strange libertarian cult as loopy as I do). This doesn&#8217;t make us Zimbabwe or North Korea. </p>
<p>There is a lot not to like about the current government but you really need to get a sense of perspective here.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Giles</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37444</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Giles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37444</guid>
		<description>Luke, you have a very refined conception of moral nuance. Great play, great point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke, you have a very refined conception of moral nuance. Great play, great point.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37134</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37134</guid>
		<description>&quot;Innocent&quot;: Why, thank you! I agree, it &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a perfect illustration of how creepy it is that Andy Moore&#039;s website could be shut down simply because he wanted a degree of privacy.

A degree of privacy which Idiot/Savant jealously guards for himself, yet would deny others - even though there is no substantive difference between what he and Andy do, i.e. &lt;i&gt;express political opinions online.&lt;/i&gt;

Note that we have not revealed Idiot&#039;s identity, nor threatened to. We do not hide behind the mask of anonymity, although we support everyone&#039;s right to do so online. For that matter, we could have picked any closeup of houses on Google Maps and just said it included Idiot&#039;s address (as it is, it could be any of about 25 houses in the photo).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Innocent&#8221;: Why, thank you! I agree, it <i>is</i> a perfect illustration of how creepy it is that Andy Moore&#8217;s website could be shut down simply because he wanted a degree of privacy.</p>
<p>A degree of privacy which Idiot/Savant jealously guards for himself, yet would deny others &#8211; even though there is no substantive difference between what he and Andy do, i.e. <i>express political opinions online.</i></p>
<p>Note that we have not revealed Idiot&#8217;s identity, nor threatened to. We do not hide behind the mask of anonymity, although we support everyone&#8217;s right to do so online. For that matter, we could have picked any closeup of houses on Google Maps and just said it included Idiot&#8217;s address (as it is, it could be any of about 25 houses in the photo).</p>
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		<title>By: Innocent bystander</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37131</link>
		<dc:creator>Innocent bystander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37131</guid>
		<description>That is just creepy and a perfect illustration of why some people choose to remain anonymous online. Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is just creepy and a perfect illustration of why some people choose to remain anonymous online. Well done.</p>
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		<title>By: muerk</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37117</link>
		<dc:creator>muerk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37117</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a big difference between political commentary and a website which is specifically political advertising. 

I personally think that the electoral commission should have the address details for ads, but I don&#039;t think they need to be publicly known. As long as we have the name publicly stated on any web political advert, I would be satisfied.

Since Idiot Savant isn&#039;t advertising, there is no need for anyone to know his address. Should he put up a big ad saying VOTE FOR... then I&#039;m sure he would abide by the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a big difference between political commentary and a website which is specifically political advertising. </p>
<p>I personally think that the electoral commission should have the address details for ads, but I don&#8217;t think they need to be publicly known. As long as we have the name publicly stated on any web political advert, I would be satisfied.</p>
<p>Since Idiot Savant isn&#8217;t advertising, there is no need for anyone to know his address. Should he put up a big ad saying VOTE FOR&#8230; then I&#8217;m sure he would abide by the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37107</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37107</guid>
		<description>Why is NRT still on our blogroll? I&#039;m deleting it and replacing it with better links, like Poneke and Quest for Security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is NRT still on our blogroll? I&#8217;m deleting it and replacing it with better links, like Poneke and Quest for Security.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-37106</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pacificempire.org.nz/2008/01/29/the-left-vs-free-speech/#comment-37106</guid>
		<description>Michael: that&#039;s terrible. I hope you&#039;ve got plenty of ideas for this years Hutt South campaign?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael: that&#8217;s terrible. I hope you&#8217;ve got plenty of ideas for this years Hutt South campaign?</p>
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